The Trump Tapes
| Company type | Audiobook |
|---|---|
| Industry | Publishing |
| Founded | 2022 |
| Founder | Bob Woodward |
| Products | Audiobook, print and digital editions |
| Parent | Simon & Schuster |
The Trump Tapes: Bob Woodward's Twenty Interviews with President Donald Trump is a nonfiction audiobook released in 2022, presenting 20 conversations between journalist Bob Woodward and Donald Trump conducted over the period from 2016 to 2020. Alongside these interviews, the collection includes unedited transcripts of 27 letters exchanged between Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, 25 of which Woodward had previously acquired in 2020 for his book Rage. The audiobook runs for roughly 11½ hours and was subsequently made available in both print and digital editions.
In January 2023, Trump initiated legal action against Woodward and Simon & Schuster, accusing them of copyright infringement concerning the published recordings. Woodward and the publisher responded by asserting the lawsuit was baseless, noting that the interviews were conducted with Trump's agreement and on the record.
Background
In March 2016, Bob Woodward, together with Washington Post journalist Robert Costa, interviewed Trump during his presidential campaign at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C. Present with Trump were campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, press secretary Hope Hicks, and his son Donald Trump Jr. During this session, Trump admitted to provoking strong emotions, a notion that inspired the titles of two of Woodward’s books about him: Rage and Fear: Trump in the White House. Costa later partnered with Woodward on his third book, Peril.
Following the completion of Fear in August 2018, Trump contacted Woodward. He expressed a willingness to engage but predicted the book would be "negative" and "very inaccurate," while claiming no president had performed better than he had. Upon publication, Trump dismissed the book as "just another bad book," questioning both Woodward’s reliability and his political intentions.
Nevertheless, Trump provided substantial cooperation for Woodward’s follow-up work, Rage, encouraging senior administration officials—including Jared Kushner and Robert C. O'Brien—to participate in interviews. White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany described Trump as "the most transparent president in history." Over this period, Trump took part in 18 recorded interviews totaling nine hours. Despite this involvement, after Rage was published, he criticized it as "very boring." These interviews constitute the foundation of The Trump Tapes.
One highly publicized interview conducted on February 7, 2020, revealed that Trump privately admitted to minimizing the seriousness of COVID-19 to prevent public panic, despite warnings that it could be up to five times more lethal than influenza. Publicly, he maintained that the virus was "under control." This revelation sparked significant criticism from healthcare professionals and politicians alike; Joe Biden described Trump's handling of COVID-19 as "almost criminal." The White House defended Trump's approach as an effort to maintain calm. Trump later explained that downplaying the threat was intended to "show a calmness." Woodward faced scrutiny for postponing the release of these comments but contended that earlier publication would not have provided additional insights.
On August 14, 2020, after completing Rage, Trump once again phoned Woodward to discuss the book and defend his COVID-19 strategy, emphasizing his priority on safeguarding the economy and asserting that "Nothing more could have been done." When Woodward referenced praise from New York Times columnist Tom Friedman regarding the Israel–UAE normalization deal, Trump expressed optimism about receiving favorable coverage in future publications.
Correspondence with Kim Jong Un
During his 2016 presidential campaign, Trump criticized the Obama administration's approach of "strategic patience" toward North Korea, promoting a strategy that combined firm pressure with open communication. On June 12, 2019, after the historic 2018 Singapore and 2019 Hanoi summits—where Trump became the first sitting U.S. President to engage directly with North Korea's leader—he announced receiving a "beautiful" letter from Kim Jong Un. In response, Kim praised Trump's reply as "excellent" and referred to him as the "supreme leader" of the United States.
Prior to Bob Woodward’s disclosures, only these two letters were publicly known. However, Woodward revealed an additional 25 letters exchanged between April 2018 and August 2019 while preparing his book Rage. These correspondences were subsequently seized by the FBI during their 2022 search of Mar-a-Lago. Full transcripts of these letters appear in The Trump Tapes.
Reception
Critics recognized The Trump Tapes as historically important, though their assessments of Woodward’s interviewing style and conclusions differed. Ron Elving from NPR News commended the audiobook, noting that "hearing Trump has an impact that reading alone cannot match." Lloyd Green of The Guardian described the work as a "chilling warning for US democracy" and found it "disturbingly relevant."
Laura Miller writing for Slate expressed mixed feelings; she acknowledged that "historians... will want to hear all of this," but also criticized Woodward and Trump’s aides for failing to fully grasp Trump's character despite prolonged exposure.
George Packer in The Atlantic offered a more negative review, contending that the book largely rehashes familiar information without providing fresh insights. He argued that while Trump continues to command media attention with provocative remarks, public reaction oscillates between shock and fatigue because "nothing is new, and nothing happens."
Litigation
In January 2023, Trump initiated a $50 million lawsuit in the United States District Court for the Northern District of Florida against Woodward and Simon & Schuster. He accused them of “systematic usurpation, manipulation, and exploitation of audio” recorded during interviews for Rage, asserting he never authorized use of his voice in audiobook form. Woodward and Simon & Schuster defended the historical value of the audio material and dismissed the lawsuit as "without merit."
By April 2023, their legal representatives sought dismissal of the case, highlighting Trump's failure to register copyright and arguing that government officials cannot claim ownership over interviews conducted while holding office. Further motions filed in May emphasized that the recordings are protected under copyright law, licensing agreements, contract law, and industry publishing standards.
In August, Judge M. Casey Rodgers ordered the case to be transferred to the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York. Woodward and Simon & Schuster submitted another motion to dismiss in September. The lawsuit was ultimately resolved with dismissal in 2025.
Intellectual property specialists observed that this case was unusual due to ongoing ambiguities surrounding American copyright laws as they apply to recorded interviews.
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